In her role as Payroll Analyst II at the University of California, San Francisco, Denise Thomas processes and audits transactions in a unified payroll system, including hire transactions, transfers, pay-impacting changes, and terminations, all while ensuring alignment with payroll calendars and deadlines. Denise also established and manages the alumni program for JVS, helping others benefit from the same training that launched her career.
Michael Richardson and Nicky Coolberth spoke with Denise about her path into the health field, what it’s like to start over in your late 40s, and how policymakers can better support workers (especially those who are a little bit older) who want to train for a better job and make a career transition.
Nicky & Michael: Denise, we are so excited to chat with you because your story about re-inventing yourself is inspiring. Can you tell us about your career path and how it has evolved over time?
Denise: I started my career journey through a nonprofit program at JVS San Francisco which allowed me to get career training with some classroom experience. At the time, I was 47 or 48 years old and had been out of school for so long. I left high school in 12th grade. The challenge was to re-learn how to learn all over again. I needed to take some courses before going through the Medical Administrative Assistant program – a course on English, arithmetic, social studies. When I was in high school, of course, there were no computers. We worked on typewriters then. So, I took a class to learn basic computer skills. Maybe most importantly, I learned that I had a voice; and I built valuable relationships. When it was time to interview for a position in the health field, I had some self-esteem. We also learned networking and participated in mock interviews. JVS made sure I was able to get my first pair of eye glasses and a couple of suits for interviews.
I landed a position as a Digital Clerk. And because of my enthusiasm to learn and show up for work early each day, I was noticed. I was offered a temporary position as a Clerk, demonstrated hard work and loyalty, and later worked my way up to a career position as a Payroll Analyst 2 where I sit today, 10 years in. Wow! I never knew.
Nicky & Michael: That’s quite a journey – and it’s really a great example of what NSC shared in a recent brief that mentions 6 in 10 older workers are willing to learn new skills. Can you talk a little about what it was like to return to a learning environment after being out a while?
Denise: First, let me say that for a long time, I thought I was un-teachable. I thought I was dumb – because I was involved with people that were giving me so much misinformation. I believed the lie that I wasn’t going to amount to anything, to ever have anything, and that this was the best I could do. The price of that false belief was huge. The doubt was so ingrained that when I learned about JVS, I actually had to be coerced to go. I wasn’t going to show people how dumb I was. But the incredible people at JVS helped me completely re-write that narrative in a ten-week job training. I learned that in the competitive world, no matter your age, people are looking for a renewed mind – a mind that’s willing to learn. That’s when a light bulb went off for me. The stigma came from within myself. I became willing to learn – and it was easier than I thought.
I learned that in the competitive world, no matter your age, people are looking for a renewed mind – a mind that’s willing to learn. That’s when a light bulb went off for me.
Also, my mother always used to tell me that I should ask questions in class and articulate back to the instructor – but I never applied that advice. I was intimidated. The reason is that if you don’t engage, the teachers assume you understand everything. Once I heard something, or got an answer, I thought that was it.
Nicky & Michael: It sounds like the main challenge was realizing that you needed to stop underestimating yourself and be an active participant in your own learning. It’s about developing the confidence to engage and treat learning as a dialogue – not just an exercise in absorbing information. That’s a very valuable piece of advice for people returning to the classroom. What other takeaways can you offer to workers, especially older workers, who may feel hesitant about learning new skills?
Denise:
The one thing that held me back was my own fear – fear of looking dumb, fear of starting over. But I got in the door and saw there were a whole bunch of people who looked like me. The majority were younger than I was, but there were several who were my age also starting over. You realize you’re not alone. I tell people my story all the time because if I can do it, anyone can do it. Any person who thinks they’re too old to learn, give yourself a break! Give yourself a chance to learn. Please allow yourself to learn and grow – we are never too old to renew our minds. And besides – you can always go back to doing what you were doing. You’re never going to be worse off for trying.
Nicky & Michael: That’s a powerful shift – from doubting yourself to recognizing your own potential. It really challenges the stereotype that older worker aren’t adaptable. This brings us to the bigger picture. What do you wish more employers or policymakers understood about older workers – especially those who want to train for new or better careers? How can companies or policymakers better support learners like you?
Denise: I’ve always wanted to go back to school for an associate’s degree and become a drug counselor and motivational speaker. But I don’t have the income or the resources to go back to school right now. So, that’s a barrier. Even if I get a student loan, it’s going to set me back. I want to go to school while I’m working, but I don’t have the money for that and to save for a home. Even in a low-cost state like Oklahoma, bills are bills. And unfortunately, even yearly raises are at risk right now because of this federal funding that they’re snatching out from under us.
Congress could help by funding free or low-cost training that makes it easier. The only training I’ve had is what I got through free courses. If we had more programs like that, more people could move forward.
I wish Congress would get on board and give the help that we’re asking for. When I was working in the office in California, we held weekly staff meetings. The one thing my colleagues knew about me is that Denise is going to raise her hand and ask a question. I would say, “Where did you all learn your skills and how can I go about learning them? Who is willing to help me do that?” That’s what I would say to Congress: “Are you willing to help me do that?
I would say, “Where did you all learn your skills and how can I go about learning them? Who is willing to help me do that?” That’s what I would say to Congress: “Are you willing to help me do that?
I truly believe that when the student, young and old alike, is ready to learn, the teacher will appear. I’m living proof of that. But Congress actually has the power to make it happen.
Nicky and Michael: That’s a compelling case for why public investments in training really matter. You’ve clearly held up your end of the bargain – it seems like it’s time for Congress to do their part by making sure everyone has a chance to train for a good job. What keeps you motivated and engaged in your work today?
Denise: I’m the one who makes sure everything behind the scenes is right for the employment specialists, entering promotions, pay changes, benefits, transfers – everything. It’s all about attention to small details, which I’m good at. But also – the University of California is huge. I know I’m part of something bigger, and that motivates me.
Also, being an older woman in the work world has given me the ability to stand on my own two feet. It’s knowing I really have a career job, and people are happy that I am there. When I create job security for myself, I open the door to new opportunities – not just for me, but for someone who might come after me who feels the same uncertainty and hope I once did.
It’s always been the people for me.
